Introduction

The body is classical information. The mind is quantum information. And the spirit is meaning. The meaning of quantum information. Every one of us has to find out who he is by an experience of who he is. Not by reading a book and repeating what that's that's what AI does. Yeah. Yeah. Once you decide that you're going to find out, the world will present you the next step to do. I had the honor of once again meeting physicist and inventor of the first microprocessor, Federrico Fajin, whose life mission it has become to understand consciousness and the meaning of life. And all of a sudden, out of the chest, just a you know, just energy was coming out of my chest. But it was love and it was love that was never felt before. It was it was love that was coming from me. After our previous video with Federico, your heartfelt comments just kept pouring in. Thank you so much for this because together you told the YouTube algorithms that the world needs to hear Federico's message of oneness. Everything is interconnected. Life starts with one. It doesn't start with a cell. I'm just an average tall Dutch guy fascinated by consciousness. But next to me is the real giant we would be interviewing again. In this video, we will recap the basics of Fed Rico's quantum theory of consciousness, explain them in more detail, and he will share new ideas with us from his upcoming book.
Quantum physics is actually pointing to the mind of the universe. In fact, a good way to think of this is the color wheel. You know the color wheel, okay? Red, green, and blue, right? So if red is the body, green is the mind and blue is the spirit, they have overlap regions. Each field is observer, observe and agent. So there has to be an overlap between spirit and body. Woo! What is there? Yeah, tell me. The permanent memory of the experience of the self knowing of one space, time and matter. Welcome at the Assencia Foundation's YouTube channel. We are sitting here in Barcelona where the science of consciousness conference is held and we have the honor of sitting down again with Silicon Hero Fedrico Fine. Federico, a very warm welcome. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. Pleasure is mine. And uh I really wanted to start by thanking you. Our previous video had an amazing amount of views thanks to your energy, your wisdom. Like video is over two million views right now. 8,000 people have commented. So I'm just here to thank you for that and super thrilled to go deeper and answer questions from our audience. So thanks. It's a pleasure. I mean I'm here for going deeper. Yeah, we will. I think it's nice to give our audience a sort of recap.
And a way I thought in doing so is just by making us aware of the fact that being able to sit down with you here doing this interview is thanks to your technology. I mean the photons that hit the sensors of these cameras they will encounter silicon gate technology in these machines right and the electrons are then sort of put together in our computers to to make videos and they will come in YouTube using algorithms based on neural nets. again technology you pioneered in and people will have clicked on this videos probably using touchpad again technology you help pioneering so that's all that so that's just amazing and it could only be done with your sort of scientific hardcore scientific mindset but we are here now to dive deeper in what's at the beginning of that chain I just described you sitting there me sitting here people watching at home so the question I want to open with who are

Who are we truly as humans?

we truly? Feder Rico, you, me, people watching, who are we fundamentally? We are not the body. We are we exist in a reality deeper than the spacetime, matter, energy, the scientism believed to be all there is. And that here is the real collision of beliefs that needs to be resolved. Uh so we are not the body. We are beings that exist in a deeper reality where consciousness, free will exist. We control the body. The body is an instrument that we use to have an experience in this reality which is by and large made up. It is made up by the information that hits our senses, transformed by our body and perceived by the conscious field that we are. We are a field. We are not a com a finished bounded entity. And I think so many people uh what resonated with people they sense they intuitit sort of adept a truth here. And now you have a theory that describes it. And also a lot of people do wonder if so

Why do we often feel separated?

why am I so um why do I feel so uh isolated or separated? Why do I have such a strong sense of mi being an ego in spacetime and how can I experience what you are describing here? What's your answer to that? Well, first of all, we we are here to have an experience in order to know ourselves. But when I say to know ourselves, I don't mean to know ourselves as a body. If we believe to be the body, that's the first delusion is that to believe that we are the body. So then if we think we are the body, well then we we start with the wrong foot. So we have to understand that we are a field. This field wants to experience aspects of itself. No, understand aspects of itself that in this reality will actually be accentuated by the fact that the body will be almost organized in such a way that it will manifest those aspect that the self that we are the largest vaster self that we are wishes to understand. And so we we in a sense are representative in this reality of the vaster self that we are. And we the portion of us that believe to be the body is the ego and the ego believing to be the body you know behaves like the body and the body is conditioned to manifest what the vaster self wants to understand of

Is the ego part of the ‘Seity’, the conscious field that we are?

itself. Is that ego bit still pass um part of that vaster um consciousness is that also sort of in in the sayy sort of the conscious field of course it is part of the s the is the name that I use for a quantum field that has also consciousness and free will I have to use a different name because [snorts] I think it's pretty cool though but the the quantum field does not have any consciousness and or any free will according to the scientism or so generally science today. So we have to use a different name. Yeah. And the fact that it is conscious and has free will say is the proper name. Yeah. Okay. say, but I I think that we will definitely get also in this conversation again to sort of how you look on on the quantum and uh but I think once you make those steps which we outlined in our previous conversations which you your postulate like like one is holistic one wants to know itself

Spacetime as One that knows itself…

and um it starts knowing itself by um commun communicating two parts of itself and that that process of communicating is our space-time reality. Right? We're living in a sort of consciousness speaking writing to itself, right? That's that's the way to understand it. Yeah. Yeah. One one the totality of what exists knows itself through our own knowing ourselves which requires communicating with each other because we are parts whole of one. Check. In other words, we are parts that contain the whole. The reality is holographic in other words and and holographic means that the whole is contained in the part. I notice often that the cells of our body are built the same way. Each cell has the genome of the egg that created the entire organism. So each cell has the blueprints of the entire organism. So look at that even the body which is a perishable thing perishable construction has the same holographic properties and organization and for people to understand your sort of your sort of cosmology right so let's if if you're okay with that let's start

Federico’s cosmology in contrast to the Big Bang story

with the very very beginning so the the classical story we know is sort of the big bang story so we have the big bang we have the formation of stars then we have chemistry and chemistry somehow that's sort of A first miracle you could say leads to biology. No one truly understands how and then biology leads somehow to consciousness also. Again, no one truly understands how. But that's sort of the the the story we all grew up with. So people will know that story. Then come you you turn it around because it's not consciousness is not the end of genius. It starts with consciousness. Okay. All [snorts] good. So that's a nice nice picture. But then you do also have a lot to explain, right? as how from being a one conscious field do we get to sort of this here? I mean that's just it's also a crazy story in a sense but please explain your sort of line of reasoning there. Yeah. Well, you know scientism is materialist and reductionist. [snorts] So scientism starts with the idea that there are separate aspects, separate parts, you know, atoms, molecules, particles, they're separate. And uh uh and so they're trying to understand the universe combining aspects, part particles, atoms, and molecules. uh as if you could express and understand the whole using parts that are separated when their nature is not to be separated.
This is what quantum physics the the the quantum field theory have shown that the foundational aspect of reality are the quantum fields of particles. So already quantum physics is saying everything is interconnected and the interconnection comes from what is called quantum uh entanglement. The entanglement is that that the the aspects of the you know the states of the fields when they interact they create properties in common that connects them independent of the distance and therefore you have properties here that says that non-locality is the way the universe is is built where the whole idea of of science up until uh you know the understanding that there is entanglement was that there is locality. In other words, properties and and actions can only occur if you have interactions which are at the vicinity of where the you know or where the the species are or where the atom or molecules or particles are. But in this case there is there is what appears to be action at a distance instantaneous action at a distance which is incomprehensible with the way in which we understand you know the world and and now has been proven the last experiment that proved you know without any doubt that this must be so was done in 2014. So here we have we we we are you know we have in front of us a reality that says everything is interconnected. There are no parts no separable parts.
You cannot start with separable parts then you have to start with the whole and if you start from the whole you have to explain then why the parts come out of the whole. This is a complete reversal from the way science science in the beginning now becomes scientism a a belief system you know a a a dogma says that the world has to be built this other way. No in fact probably a 100 top physicists today want to start from the whole and derive the parts because they have understood that trying to go the other way gives you know leaves you empty-handed. Yeah. In fact, you know, string theory which tried to explain reality from the parts which are strings that vibrates [snorts] did not succeed. And you know, it took about 80 years of hard work. At one point 90% of the, you know, the physicist, the theoretical physicist were working on string theory. They didn't get anywhere. So that's that's telling you that no, we have to start with the whole.
Wow, that's difficult because the whole not being able to se to being separated into parts brings into question even the nature of mathematics because the nature of mathematics mathematics starts with parts the sets the sets that define that you know [snorts] this element is either in the set or outside the set you have to find true and false but if everything is interconnected what is true and what is false you See, you know, there may be areas where there are both true and false. For example, look at the color. Let's take the color red and the color orange. Do you is there a boundary between the two? Can you define a boundary that says from this side of the boundary is red, the other side of the boundary is orange. Is that possible? No. No. There is a a region where you can say is both orange and red or is neither orange or red. Yeah. This is reality. This is the deeper reality is made that way. It is in our face. The colors which are qualia are that type of reality. I love what

John Wheeler’s participatory universe, and consciousness in relationship to our material universe

you're saying in that sort of I think it's nice for people to to dive as we now are in in the quantum and discussing the oneness and and um interconnectedness. It makes me think about sort of John Wheeler who came up with that participatory universe you right and you have we have the big bang and we have the conscious observer and he sense that both are connected in a way we don't understand yet and it's participatory. So and basically you're when you say sort of the red and the orange if we Sorry. Yeah. Red and orange. If you would say red and orange in that where is it red? Where is it orange? Where's the observer and and and an objective outside world? Subject object divide. Where do you point it? And then the question becomes if you that dualistic picture is naive. He he knew that. I mean and in quantum physicists now know that subject object divide is arbitrary. Where to put the cut? And then we have to pick right? Then we're in this position.
Are you staying putting your bats on objective world matter and then saying somehow dualistic need to arrive at sort of that subject or you put your bats on subjective experience and you clearly are on that side say okay that's consciousness first and I get that but for people who who find that hard to do just grew up but but but Fed Rico it's matter I just have a body it's a material universe how can you say it starts with consciousness what what's your most simple reply apply to them to make that that leap. How can you get consciousness from matter that doesn't have any consciousness? Ah can how can something how can more comes from less? You have to start there because you cannot explain how matter can know itself. You know if it is matter it shouldn't be conscious and it is defined as non-concious. So, how can you get consciousnesses out of out of something that doesn't have it? Even worse, free will. How can you get free will from a world that is supposed to be deterministic? You know, objects in space and time are deterministic. And in quantum physics, quantum physics does not describe the motion of objects in space and time. The state of a field has nothing to do with it doesn't describe reality. It describe a all the possibilities that you could possibly measure of something but with their probabilities.
So, so it only can tell you what is possible to know about reality. That's not what is possible to know about reality is not reality because reality is what actually is sharable, right? Is is you know we we we can all see the same thing. No quantum physics. In fact, quantum physics is actually pointing to the mind of the universe to a quantum computer of the universe that makes predictions about what might happen. But what will happen is based on free will decisions on the fields which are the components of this reality. Einstein said like God doesn't play dice

Why Einstein couldn’t make the leap to accept quantum reality

right and he pointed to sort of he couldn't live with that idea at this random. So he I guess I I thought about that in preparing this interview thinking linking this to Einstein because you would agree it [snorts] is not playing dice it's free will it's a decision. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. You know, Einstein being because he believed in determinism. Yeah. Could couldn't make that leap. Yeah. Exactly. And saying and say no no you know the fact that quantum physics only gives us probability of all the of whatever might happen but it doesn't tell you what will happen. And so and there is a known there is a partulate that is the essentially that says that from [snorts] the probability to what the actuality many probabilities to one actuality what actually manifest in space and time. Nobody knows how that process works. No single single particles we do not know. Right. It's called collapse of the wave function. Yeah. Okay. And nobody has an explanation for that. We know that it is random and it is non-algorithmic. So all of a sudden what can be random and non-algorithmic? A free will decision. A woo or the field that you

Quantum collapse as a free will decision of quantum fields

observe not of the observer. See in the past there was this theory that the observer may collapse the wave function. Yeah this is not what this theory is saying. What I'm talking about is the field that you observe but in fact the field that interacts in the and plays the role of an observer because each field is observer observe and agent all three every field plays all these three roles. Yeah. Because there are only fields that interact with each other. Yeah. So this Yeah. Yeah. this. But here we definitely need to sort of pause and explain because this this is again your sort of I I call it like your your cosmology but it would be like the

Hans gives a recap of his understanding of the drone metaphor

conscious field starting to um in in in starting to wanting to know itself so to speak. I'm I'm trying to understand this. Um it starts communicating and you say that you need symbols to communicate. You need symbol symbols and you need to agree on those symbols otherwise you cannot talk. So that would be like consciousness reflecting on itself and it would be the first what Bernardo would call dissociation. I'm curious how you though reflect on that process how we get from one to that first divide of it looking upon itself. It would need a symbol to communicate. Yeah. And those symbols have to look like something and they they are sort of physical reality. Mhm.
But at a certain moment that physical reality had sort of special features life right because stars is all that's physical but but then we had the magical moment where where somehow it started to be able to recreate itself like recreating symbols that sort of I write down and then all of a sudden those those symbols start doing stuff like wow and I created that and then but correct me if I'm wrong I find a way to incarnate in that like wow can I enter that like I built this the in your image in our previous conversation we had the the metaphor of the drone right you said the drone metaphor okay I create this drone and and I created the space where a drone flies and then I all of a sudden notice hey wait a minute there's a way for me to communicate in a drone hey how cool would it be if I I'm in that drone that's amazing and then the story gets and there we get lost right then we got but is this a way to get it I thought sort of how to to to to get my head around it based on a previous conversation. Yeah. So so let's start with a a principle. Yeah. Okay. We have to start with every with with the whole with one. We cannot start with the parts. The parts are emanation of one. Now there are parts because we we experience parts.
Even quantum theory says there are quantum fields and those are considered separate though they interact with each other and when they interact they entangle so they're not really separate because that entanglement remains independent of space and time. So so yeah so even that is not right. Okay. But the this preconceived idea that we had to start with parts and that everything is material is always is always he know is weighing heavily on us as we try to figure out what's going on. So we had to get rid of that for for a second. So let's think that one which is defined as the totality of what exists has three properties is dynamic holistic and wants to know itself. dynamic and holistic is what quantum physics is already saying the re you know all that exist is never the same instant after instant keeps on changing changes all the time and everybody agrees with that and is holistic everything is interconnected is not made of separable parts this is what entanglement has shown the world is like this I have added and wants to know itself why am I doing that because the evidence Is that consciousness and free will which are the aspects of wanting and the aspect of knowing itself because for one to know itself it must be conscious.
It must experience itself and in that experience know itself must be fundamental because they cannot be explained with something that doesn't have those properties. Matter without consciousness and without free will cannot create consciousness and free will period. Lots of people have tried to figure it out. Myself tried to figure out how to make a robot that was conscious. I couldn't do it. There is no way that you can transform electrical signals, biochemical signals, any kind of signal, any kind of information into conscious, you know, consciousness and free will. There is no way. So you got to start there. So if you start there now all of a sudden and by the way if you start there when you say one [snorts] one also has see since one wants to know

Where is the self-knowing of One coming from?

itself where does it come the self- knowing where's is self- knowing of one coming from it cannot come from nothing well it's coming from a potentiality a potentiality some pos possibility ities that potentiality is actually the best fit for the explaining the quantum vacuum because in quant in physics quantum physics there is the quantum vacuum which is what is what is left when you take all the fields out of reality and there is a quantum vacuum that has a in inner energy with a density which is astronomical is in incredible how much energy there is in what supposed to be vacuum crazy and this vacuum is kind of boiling up and is creating forms you know but they are not forms they are kind of chaotic things they appear disappear and you know and it they call you know foam but you know this stuff is what is there before there is anything before there is form there is this quantum quantum vacuum so that's the potential of one that's new. This is not in this is a little you know a little further you know into you know into connection connection between you know physics and spirituality right so now the first time that one knows itself because there there has to be a first time where one knows itself. Yeah. At least in the narrative. Okay. Because they may but you know the question is what what is time? We had to figure out what is time. Okay. So let's not let's not go too far.
Let's start from you know from the first time that one knows itself. What happens? It brings one

The first time that One knows itself

brings into existence what it knows. So knowing and existing are two faces of the same coin. Yeah. So now knowing we now understand what knowing is. Knowing is an experience. That's me. One say that's me. It knows itself. Yeah. It brings into at the same time that it knows itself, it brings it into existence. Okay. And it must be a part whole of itself. Why? It's not made of parts. One is not made of parts. It cannot see itself just a little bit. It's got to see itself completely in the direction in which it look at itself. What is direction? The direction is the identity of what it brings into existence. That's the identity of the sati. It brings into

The identity of a Seity

existence a saty. A part of itself that now being a part must want to know itself. That part wants to know itself just like one wants to know itself. Yeah. And it can create other parts out of itself. Just exactly like a cell that duplicates. That's exactly what I was wanting to say. That's why life starts with one. It doesn't start with a cell. I had that image of one and I was wanting to say to you that's the true big bang. That moment of of self.

Self-knowing as the true Big Bang

Yeah. The big bang is the moment where you go from nothing, nothing, the quantum vacuum, the potential existence to you know one knows itself but like a full federa would it be like a full self-nowledge like a full part hole like a full copy of itself so to speak well it contains the totality of itself but with in that direction which has known itself. Yeah, exactly. That perspective on itself perspective like a snapshot for myself. Next time, next time around, he sees itself in another perspective. It brings into existence another part hole of itself. Okay. Then we have those part holes. That's how parts all are created. They are just like cells. Yeah. There cells out of a you know of a the egg being one is the egg that creates another cell, another part. Yeah. Just like life man. Same [snorts] way. Yeah. For people who who think this is crazy stuff. I mean the other story that's crazy stuff to think that life comes from nothing. Yeah. Exactly. The other story is crazy as well. The other story is just as crazy to start saying that we need to build up stuff. It's called the combination problem. And it's it's a very profound philosophical problem, practical problem. It's a problem psychism has. Um and this is sort of the decomposition problem. How we get from one to those separate parts.
And I I do think in a sense nature is giving us more metaphorical images that we can relate to that are in favor of that that we see splitting off. Of course. Yeah, that's cool stuff. But it explains for example why life has to occur because you know and it starts from the concept of self- knowing knowing which is foundational. Even science is about knowing for Christ's sake. It's not about something else. It's about knowing. And then we have very so then the knower the that which knows. So that's that's that part hole that say that now can also know start knowing right of course she knows itself that say knows itself with that identity with that point of view. Yeah. It's like a you know it's like a you know the sati becomes conditioned to observe reality with that same point of view with which one knew itself when he created this. Yeah. And then that which is known. So the knowing bit starts knowing itself has to because I'm hinting at where sort of we get to physical reality. How we get to information what you call sort of information and physical sort of life information and the physical how we get there. Yeah. Anything that a siy knows for the first time brings into existence the same way that one brought into existence. You know the sity when he he knew itself that way. Same way. M in other words any new knowing is a

Any new knowing is a creation

creation is not a combination of stuff is a new creation. That's where creation comes from. Yeah. And and and sort of physics the the metaphor physics gives us is the collapse of the wave function. Yeah. Because that's potentiality and when we want to gain knowledge we have to collapse and then we have a particle. Yeah. That but that is you see the crucial thing is that knowing is about meaning. is not about symbols. We so far I haven't even mentioned symbols. The symbols are what are needed for the for the saties to communicate with each other. Why? Because the what they feel their own experience and their own knowing cannot be duplicated. Exactly. The property of quantum fields. the state, the quantum state of a field cannot be reproduced. Now you see the connection of what I'm talking about with quantum physics explaining why it has to be that way. Yeah. Because the self- knowing that's a property of consciousness. It's not a property of information. The information of a computer can be copied as many times as you want. But the love that I feel for my son, I cannot even give it to him. No, I I'm the only one to know that love. How do I know it? By feeling it, by experience it. By qualia. But qualia are the bringers of meaning. What I really care about my that feeling is what does it mean?
And the meaning so the meaning of information or quantum information in this case is the essence of the spiritual aspects of reality of who we are. So there is body,

Federico’s view on body, mind, and spirit

mind and spirit. The body is classical information. The mind is quantum information. And the spirit is meaning the meaning of quantum information. That's beautiful. This is this is also new. That's a step forward.

How to distinguish between mind and spirit?

I'm somewhat myself sort of find it hard to distinguish between mind and and spirit, right? Where to exactly where's that boundary? And also in in in sort of how we can experience that b boundary ah this is the mind federico. Oh no this is this is my spirit talking. How's that where's that boundary? But the the way to understand is you know every every sati and of course one itself when it creates when it knows itself it knows itself in in these three ways. Um so body mind and spirit cannot be separated. Remember just like the colors in fact a good way to think of this is the color wheel. You know the color wheel. Okay, red, green and blue. Right? So if red is the body, green is the mind and blue is the spirit, [snorts] they have overlap regions. There is no there is no single distin you know boundary between red and green. There is an overlap. What is that overlap? What does it represent? That represents what I've called live information. quantum and classical information. The information that describes life, biological life which is not classical information. You need that kind of new type of information. It is a deb overlap between body and mind. What is it? The overlap between mind and spirit. That's qualia. Qualia the quantum state.
The quantum quant quantum states that become experience in the consciousness of the entity which is this aspect the spiritual aspect that has consciousness, free will and identity. It's in the spirit. It's not in the mind. It's not in the body. Oo what is the overlap between and this is the new thing because normally we think of spirit mind and body in linear fashion. Yeah. Hierarchy. Yeah. Yeah. No in this way is a circle. So there has to be an overlap between

Spacetime as the overlap between spirit and body

spirit and body. What is there? Yeah. Tell me. the permanent memory of the experience of the self- knowing of one space time and matter permanent matter because the memory must be permanent. Remember that I said that in the uh previous conversation that we had that the quantum the quantum state keeps on changing. So you need to put if you need to remember the quantum state you need to put that whatever happens you know your experience in the quantum state must be put into symbols into a permanent symbols so that you can re recall your experience. You need memory because the experience only lasts in a very short period of time in the present and in the present you must put into memory what you experience and so there is no past. What you experience becomes permanent memory. So there is no past you your experience

There is no past

in the present. In the present you got to put in memory your experience. So you put into you transform what you think of time into matter, permanent matter, which is what gives you the memory of what you just experienced. Also in that same present, you want to predict what might happen in the future. Right? That's what me what the mind does. That's what quantum the quantum computer which is mind does for you. It can make you it can give you probabilities of what might happen in the future. But what might happen in the future is exactly what you need to decide to express or the or the sities need to decide to express. So all of a sudden and that happens also in the present. So in the present you have the memory of the past experience and the prediction of the future and also in the present you make the decision of what to manifest. What you manifest then becomes the new body. Wow. Because because he has to be he has to be in the he has to be in the you know sharable. That's like the display of the system. the display which is which is where we all exist you know where all physical things exist in a sort of a display of reality which is the body. Yeah. But but there is also behind that body there is a computer and just and the computer is a quantum computer which is what I call mind. Yeah.
And but but it goes beyond that and that's what most people don't some people got that you need body and mind but they didn't get the spirit the meaning of the experience. So what do you put into you cannot copy the state the state of the field or you know you cannot do that but you can you can put into symbol you can put into symbol the meaning of that experience. Yeah. the meaning of of of the state that you experience the qualia that you experience that you can put into symbols. I'm trying to bring it back and to exactly how I'm sitting here with you. I mean the the over ling talking physical body are we talking physical my physical body here? So the this overlap to to to um the the the spirit body overlap manifests itself right here then right? Yeah. He manifest in this in this sharable. This is sharable reality. Think of you know space time and matter

Think of our shareable reality as the display of a quantum computer

you know and matter energy as the display of a the classical display of a quantum computer. Yeah. And a memory display it gives us all states. It's a memory. But but then the interpretation of the bits that exist in that display is in our consciousness. Yeah. It's a consciousness. It's not in space and time. Is again consciousness. But then then the reality as we perceive it is this big library of experience states of of of consciousness. It's a library of of of content of consciousness. Would that be a way to put it? The you know our experience right our experience the meaning of our of our past experience is also something accessible only by my consciousness is not in space and time. No that is in some but it it is in some kind of space-time matter but it's not the kind of space-time matter that we normally think about. Yeah. Yeah. For example, right now the only hypothesis that I have for the me for

Federico’s hypothesis of what dark matter is

the you know the matter that will represent permanent permanent memory of the experience will be dark matter because dark matter doesn't interact with real matter or energy. They they it's just something we just discover 50 years ago we discovered that we have to have dark matter which is a lot more percentage wise than than the matter that we knew. Yeah. Okay. So, so, so dark matter could be the could be a candidate for structures that are permanent and represent the memory of the experience of the satis and the experience of one. Yeah. Also, the expansion of the universe has to occur if there is a continuing self- knowing of one that keeps on growing. You need that that knowledge needs to be stored stored somewhere. You need more more more space and space time. More space time as a hard drive for that experience. What we call space time. Yeah. But this is all, you know, this is highly speculative at this point. But but it gives you a sense of the way I'm I'm thinking. It's super interesting. It's also highly abstract and I think it's very hard to follow. I I find it hard to follow.
But I do think it's just important to notice that once you take take that that that leap that first postulates of your your postulates and and and which are close to to idealism of they are idealist you if you once you say all it's consciousness then everything you perceive reflects back and is it's just consciousness reflecting back on itself and then it starts it it does start making sense.

About our materialist bias

It's just our we are so biased in in our we're so immersed in in in our materialist thinking. But Hans, it's hard conditioned. It's hard to follow quantum physics. Quantum physics. These same physicists that know the equation say well I don't understand what they mean. I mean is is actually crazy if you think about it. Now if you start from this posture that I said earlier, you can explain why quantum physics must have those properties that nobody has understood. Come on. I mean this actually explains now there is a partial that explains what nobody has ever been able to understand. And that's to me that's a big step forward. Absolutely. You know, now the quantum fields are conscious and therefore you can interpret now the collapse of the wave function as a free will decision of that quantum field is the one that decides where to show the electrons in the dumble slid experiment. Yeah. Is the field that interacts with the field of the instrument. But that interaction is the field that decide I'm going to show the the the electron over here for whatever reason it does. It's his own will, free will. You see, I think why you explain what you know otherwise is everything is is is just cha is just randomness. Yeah, we explain life as randomness. How can you explain life with randomness? The

How can we explain life as randomness?

same way that we explain, you know, consciousness with something that doesn't have consciousness. Same way we pull it off, you know, out of a hat. Yeah. Love it when you're fired up like that. It's amazing. I like it. The my take on it is Fed Rico, I'm I'm I've been exploring for the last year the foundations of physics, talking to like super smart physicists that you will understand much better than I do. But what I did get from them and visiting these conferences is sort of this what they call this epistemic turn, right? That now also in the foundational physics, they won't go as far as you, but they are saying, "Wait a minute, this is not about objective reality. It's about our knowledge of reality. That's right. So that's a bit sort of still Copenhagen interpretation. Yeah. But then they still shy away from stuff like uh they want to stay away from what an observer really is or what measurement really is. They just say it's about knowledge, right? That's as far as they now go. Sometimes I think that it takes a deep profound personal experience to to be able to make that leap. And I I to what degree do you

To what extent do you need a transcendent experience?

think you would you would be able to come up with this theory hadn't you had that that deeply personal experience? I I would not been able to. Yeah. No, because you you know you you have to experience yourself as a part otherwise how can you say that there is there are parts all. Yeah. you know is such a you know a different kind of a you know explanation then after you have experienced yourself as a parole then you can understand that our cells are also parts all of the organism but I never read in any book of biology that our cells are parts all of the organism. I can say it because I understand that I am a part of one and therefore and also that the nature has a is a fractality you know the same structure is repeat at a different scale. I mean a cell of our body is just like weak field of one. Now there may be many many steps in between but at least there are you know we have the smallest one that we know and [snorts] the largest one which is us being part all of one. Yeah.
And but but I do think I mean amongst scientists and physicists it wouldn't count and I'm not saying I'm saying that but it wouldn't count as a strength if people the fact that you have had to add a deep personal spiritual it wouldn't count as a strength it would rather it would be suspicious right because we want to be objective right and even in psychedelic sciences it is sort of people are wrestling ethically should I myself uh undergo a a deep psy psychedelic journey or should I should I stay outside and

On the object/subject divide people think they can uphold

it's it just I don't have a very strong opinion here. The only thing is that it all relies on a basic object subject divide that you think you can uphold as if there is this position as a scientist. But look I mean you know you can find out by yourself not by taking drugs. I don't suggest to take drugs to to experience yourself as a partool. You have the capacity to to experience yourself as a parole without drugs without otherwise how how can you be sure that you know you you don't know you know yeah so so you experience yourself as a parole each one of us can you don't need a a you know a a a big atom smasher right you know you you are now believing what a scientist is telling you by having used a instrument multi-billion dollar instruments to tell you what they what reality is now I'm telling you a deeper reality the most profound reality and you can find out by yourself okay no large adon collider no large adon collider isn't that better absolutely please please please tell us how how can people because it is a big question you got to want to know you got to I mean the same way I wanted to know I was unhappy about myself. I knew that I was responsible for my unhappiness because as a you know as an entrepreneur I found out that the buck stops there right so I I I have to accept that the good or bad of the company depends on me being in charge of the company that I started.
So once I made that step meaning I am responsible for most most things or everything that happens in my life. Okay I made that then when I was I found out that I was unhappy and I pretended to be happy. I said well I am responsible for that stuff. So now being responsible I want to know because how can I be responsible if I don't have the capacity to then find out it would be a joke that that the universe is playing on me. No I trusted the universe not to not to you know to take me to to a to a loop right I trusted it and I said I want to know and I got the experience. I didn't know. I I'd never read anything like what I experienced. I could not even imagine that it would be possible to have that experience. Right. So, but it came the same can happen to you if you want. Yeah. It's it it has to do with truly wanting to find out. Yeah. Yeah. But why do we want to know ourselves, right? You know what is so fundament fundamental? One wants to know itself. Yeah. We want to know ourselves. Same thing Bartol.

Has your experience of oneness become a place you can revisit?

Have you continued sort of once you had that deep experience and you wanted it be did it become something a place where you found your way to go to whenever you feel now it's time again to connect to spirit so to speak if I'm talking spiritually. I mean that that that experience drove me to spend 20 years of my time at 30 40% of my time to explore to understand that experience. So that experience had the power to drive me to do to spend you know one-third of my time more than onethird of my time to find out about and understand that experience and it took 20 years to arrive to the you know to the hypothesis the consciousness in free will must be foundational. And Fed Rico, is it um is that theory in that in that sense also um is it that interaction of body, spirit, mind that also led you to the theory? Because many very often science is associated with mind and body. Of course, we study body within our minds and then we come and spiritual people then uh start being critical about that.

What is your response to people saying mystics and gurus already knew all of this?

All those scientists and they all fed Rico wanting to grasp it with his mind. The yogis knew, Buddha knew, and we have now this guy from Italy. Yeah, sure he's smart. He I mean he invented the microprocessor, but ah so funny he wants to grasp this intellectually. And they knew. What's your response to that? They [snorts] already knew that response is that that is the same the same uh um uh um arrogant point of view of scientism that believes to know everything. Then the spiritual spiritual version of it, the spiritual version of it. Same same

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of course but how to to to to make a system of of of of rigorous science out of that a methodology a new a new science. Well, basically if you take this seriously, you begin to investigate it uh using the rationality and the experiments. But now the experiments must be both inner and outer because you cannot you know you cannot talk about consciousness if you accept if you do not accept that there is an inner reality. You had to start with some you know with a postulate. The postulate is the you know consciousness starts from the field that we are not from the body that we are because you know if you start with scientism we are the body. So everything that happens in us should be you know should come from the body. Okay. Uh I don't know if you know the the experiment of the rubber the rubber arm.

The rubber hand experiment

Yeah. Please explain it to our viewers. A penalty rubber arm is that you you have your arm here. Then you put a you put a a a a you know just a barrier so that you don't see your arm. You see another arm next to it which is made of rubber and then you kind of cover it up in such a way you know with something similar to what you were wearing, you know. So so and now you only see that rubber h. Yeah. And then you start stroking you know with you know with say with a feather stroking both hands. Yeah. Okay. After a while your consciousness shifts from that the true arm to the fake arm. After that if you with a pin you you put a pin on the fake and you ask do you feel do you Yes. I feel I feel you know I feel pinching and you put the pin on the true on the true hand you don't feel anything amazing now that type of experiment is being used to prove that consciousness is epiphenomenal but in fact it's actually is a much more of a proof that is not epiphenomenal because how can you feel pain in something that cannot feel pain you see yeah and exactly that tells you Now your preconceived ideas force you to decide you know that one thing is true or false and you present it that way as a scientist and then you you know then basically you perpetrate a mis a total misunderstanding of what's going on.
Also, I would say if if you pinch the arm then your your real arm and you don't feel it anymore is such a strong proof that there's something profoundly strange here because I mean a physicist would say those signals we know we measure them and now all of a sudden in my brain those signals do not enter anymore. That's right. You see, I mean it's it's really this actually is a proof that consciousness is deeper than the body goes beyond the body should be a proof of that or certainly a plausible proof of that as opposed to a proof that it is epiphenomenal because it's not in the body because you start with the presumption that conscious has to be in the body. Therefore, if he's out of the body, it must be epiphenomenal. You see what I mean? Yeah. Crazy. Crazy and and also of course we know we are here are at the the the conference of uh of um of science of consciousness and there's [snorts] a lot of of of s research on stuff like out of body experiences extraocular vision you name it you you know you must know sort of the phenomena right phenomena that that physicist scientists they cannot even study it because it would point to anomalies right so you don't want to go there that's right nobody wants to go there yeah and you do have I curious sort of just speckling or thinking about the mechanisms there. If the the the say

What mechanism could be at play in out-of-body experiences (OBEs)?

um has an out-of- body experience and it can see itself um it is not using the the the quantum classical device which is my brain at that moment, right? Because it's it's accessing it from a different perspective. Yeah. What mechanism is it using then? Um well, there has to be a body associated with that, I'd say. So yeah, absolutely. You know, which also shows that there must be aspects of physics that go beyond beyond what we understand in physics. Yeah. Because you know it's called astral body in the u you know in the literature that describe this kind of phenomena and but you know clearly if they if this body if you see yourself in the bed where are the eyes to see right? Clearly they are not your eyes. They are the eyes of of of this body that now your consciousness your field is now you know using to have this experience. Yeah. You see so so it shows that there may be a hierarchies of bodies as well. Do you have any clue how that I mean it could be of course it could be theoretically also in your theory that could be endless. Could could there be sort of an endless hierarchy of different bodies? Not turtles. Not turtles. Not turtles all the way down. No. But but people uh who have had deeply life-changing spiritual experiences encountering entities, angels, you name it, God, uh deceased ones. That could all fit in this theory.
That could all be sort of higher dimensional. It could fit. It could fit. No, it's certainly can be it can be explained with this, you know, with this theory. It cannot be explained with scientism. In fact, you have to say this is bull. Yeah. And of course, it's important to say it it doesn't prove it, but it can explain it. That's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which I find super fascinating. But very often we use even you know extraordinary things like this thing of the arm that I mentioned earlier to actually pretend to prove your point which is the consciousness is apenomenal. Yeah. You see? Yeah. When in fact it proves the exactly the opposite. Yeah. That's that's crazy. That's crazy. And um

On the ethical implications of Federico’s theory

I mean science is in the end about what nature how nature behaves, right? And it's not um about what ought to be. It's about what is and not what ought to be. It's not about ethics. That's that's sort of our human problem that we we have divisions of good and bad. What are your thoughts there in your theory? Is it is there some sort of higher morality? If the foundational aspect of reality are fields that have these three properties body, mind and spirit which are inseparable, how can you separate matter from ethics? You cannot. You cannot how can you separate the stuff? You can only separate this stuff if you believe in reductionism. But you um um good and bad at one moment had to originate from one, right? And our mythologies will I mean I was brought up Christian. I I assume you brought up Catholic, of course, you know, but I'm not a Yeah. And we we like to we like to start start our story right as Christians also Catholics like to start their story sort of dualistically like like God and Satan. But if you just read the Bible we can all read that it's a fallen sign. So yeah. No I I I bas that's why I speak of

On spirituality vs religion

spirituality and other religions. religions go beyond spirituality building a structure, you know, a dogmatic structures on top of spiritual experiences of the founders of those religions. But I'm I do like to dive a bit deeper if you're okay with that and and make it personal for me as well because ever since my journey into idealism reading Bernardo's work who's also sort of he's not agnostic about ethics but he does see sort of that mind at large. But I wouldn't say that it doesn't care but would say it is not metacognitive. It doesn't know what it's doing so to speak at that level. And um that has always ever since I left my Christian faith have been sort of my my sort of struggle. How do you get to sort of a new ethics if it is not sort of godly ordained good and evil? And I could see the problem already in in Christian thinking that it had had to come from one. So somehow there was a oneness that started dividing and then started to have preferences saying this is good, this is bad and here we are in a world with good and evil things we call good and evil and suffering and all of that. [sighs] You can hear I'm puzzled here. Okay. My my sense of that is that uh what we call bad is absence of good just like darkness is absence of light. So there is no no ontological evil because if it was ontological evil there would be no salvation. It would be no

There is no ontological evil

you know you can you can never destroy on something that is real. Yeah. Okay. So it must be a misunderstanding or a miscomprehension or or some sort of uh you know something that needs to be understood and repair. in understanding it you repair it you find that it was a misunderstanding and so that's the way I that's the way I think so so there is no evil in this sense of ontological evil no exactly but there is sometimes an absence of light undeniably so but especially in this life but this life I see it as this reality is a constructed reality is not I mean what we what we think is this table is real in the sense of you know ontologically real is not ontologically real in the same sense that we as fields are real. This is construction. Construction by the interaction of a body that is made of the same matter with this table interacting with each other and in our consciousness creating the impression that there is reality. Aha. And how does this work for you personally? Just when you go about in your day, in your work, does it sort of sitting here with me? How does that play into sort of just your your daily consciousness going about? Does it change your behavior directly? This awareness? I mean, do you feel more one with people? Have you like like profoundly changed your behavior or how does that work? Absolutely. I mean, I I was very

How this theory has affected Federico’s own life

unhappy. Yeah. And now and of course I was very unhappy but I didn't even know what happiness was supposed to be. I some kind of you know I was probably the idea of being happy was probably the idea of a three or four year old that never quite you know ask himself what does it mean to be happy because I always put happiness after I reach certain goals in life right so and it was only after I check all the boxes that I you know I thought I should be happy and I wasn't so you know only then it was it you why am I not? And then at that time I was studying neuroscience and you know I was doing neuronet networks. I'm talking about almost 40 years ago and uh and so it was at that time that the idea of consciousness as a property that nobody understood came to mind. So then I wanted to understand consciousness because it was consciousness that made me unhappy.
So but so I wanted to understand this quality that we have called consciousness and that's when I had the experience uh the awakening experience and then I began a a journey that took me about 20 years from from 1990 to 2009 roughly you know to actually you know to conclude that conscience and free will and identity had to be foundational properties as an hypothesis Then I decided to stop what I was doing and dedicate myself to united science and spirituality starting from the premise the conscience and free will must be fundamental. And would you say that uh your sati your who you truly are um made

Is everything ‘meant to be’?

a free will decision because that's what I'm really thinking to be unhappy for you to be so unhappy that you would start this journey and sit here now to bring this message to the world so that in the end it was all free will decision by the si knowing it all. I mean this is what people sometimes describe right in near that they they get back and say what I thought I was so miserable was actually just all meant to be. Yeah. Well, you know I I believe that clearly this this way of thinking um me means that clearly we have more than one life that it doesn't make any sense to only have this life. Now it may be that someone may have just one life but but is much more meaningful that you have to repeat you know many lives and in order to understand deeper aspects of this is the sat that wants to understand aspect of itself. The ego is an emanation of the sati in order to know itself not the ego to know itself. The saty wants to know itself. The ego is a is a gopher of the sati. Okay. So so you know so when we think the satiy needs the ego also it needs it. Oh. Oh yeah. It needs the e the ego is the operator if you want of this body you know the beliefs to be the body and so is behaving in the way the sati wants to you know in some crazy ways.
And the sati wants that ego that that entity to to behave in order to see better understand better why what what is it that it doesn't understand about itself. See so so it's not the ego that is supposed to figure it out. If you think that the ego that you are to figure it out you are going to screw it up for sure because you know you don't have the capacity. You don't have you don't even know why you're here right as an ego. I don't know why I'm here. I'm beginning to suspect why I'm here, but only because I I have awakened to the fact that I'm part of a vaster entity. Without that awakening, I would continue to be unhappy perhaps and kind of, you know, do whatever, you know, whatever I was going to do. But I think that part, you know, it was my job to come here, go through this journey, figure it out. I I I could have missed it and then I would have to repeat it. But if I succeeded then I continue I continue to go into this path and do whatever whatever you know whatever I'm doing. And that's why I I feel so energetic about because you know I have this mission. I see it. I perceive it. I I you know that's what I want. And I'm happy but not in the happy golucky kind of thing. You know, I'm happy because I know that I'm doing what I came here to do. And everyone has something they they they need to do or if Oh. Oh. Oh. Yeah. Even if you don't know what you're doing. Okay.
Because in no matter what you do, you're going to show to your to the issues that she is here to find out. M so by by your mis mis you know good or bad action that you do you're showing the aspect that satiety wants to find out it just look look like a simulation you know just like when you simulate an equation in a computer you want to find out under

Our incarnation as an equation simulated under different conditions

these parameters with these parameters this initial conditions what what happens you know you see the behavior wow and then say well let me change the the initial condition so that's another life, you know, and then you see and so on. And so eventually you get this sense of what this equation contains and all this kind of possibilities that is going that are contained in this entity called that equation. Yeah. And it also makes me think of your your your konos and sapp the knowing and the and the knowledge, right? And that that the knowledge keeps on expanding and the knower the knowing cannot beforehand know everything that's to be known, right? has to go through that process. What what helped me I'm curious what your thoughts are also with your Christian background in when I uh I made a video on um Carl Jung's book on the the answer to Job about the the deep meaning of suffering or an explanation where where he didn't Jung didn't buy sort of the story that God knew all along, right? So they had this no job is good and and he gave Satan permission to to just hit Job with all that suffering. But and Jung said, "No, probably Yahweh in in the story, God didn't have that awareness." And and it is through sort of Job complaining to to him at the end of the story of the book of Job that God realizes I I put that good guy to pretty gave him a pretty rough ride.
Maybe that wasn't such a good idea. And then Jung I mean this is all speculation and theology, but Jung says, "Okay, that led to sort of the incarnation of Christ." And it actually this reading brought me a bit back to Christian thinking that I think yeah this I can relate to because it in can you relate to that sort of that story that that we bring something back like we we going through this life like truly bring knowledge to the sity that that it sort of can expand on. Yeah. Well, you know most uh most Christian

Federico’s thought compared to Christianity

uh religions you know the god is is uh um omniscient right? Yeah. uh that's now this the the place I start I start with one wanting to know itself it means that in fact it knows very little in the beginning and it you know and as he knows itself but it knows itself by creating entities that know it know themselves because he connects all the entities from within. So he knows the experience of of every entity but it's not the sum of the experiences. The is the quantum superposition of all those experiences which is much more than the sum. One is more than the sum of the parts. In quantum physics this is true in classical physics is not. The sum of the parts is the whole but it's just the sum of the parts. There is nothing more than the sum of the parts. That's what chemistry you know the an atom is much more than the sum of the properties of the protons and neutrons and electrons that form that atom. Okay. Yeah. So that's you know and that's that's that's that's the the creative aspect of one and so so we have to really go there and and if you start with one that evolves then the evolution of the knowing of one is the evolution of the universe.
So they explain evolution by this self- knowing of one evolving as one knows itself everything gets more complex and so on not out of randomness you know the you know how can you make better things by changing them randomly that that's silly to think that you can do better by you know just casual you know combinations is and and besides you cannot explain creation creation goes beyond the combination of what already exist. So also so for example an atom of hydrogen is much more than the sum of the capacity the property of the proton and the electron that com that make the atom. It has completely new properties. That's the creative aspect. Where do those properties come from? From the quantum vacuum which is the potentiality of of of of the knowing of one. But that that is the material aspect meaning is the symbolic aspect. The atom of hydrogen is not an entity. It's not a conscious entity is the field whose state is the atom of hydrogen which is the entity that is conscious as an identity and has free will. You see? Yeah. So we call the atoms and molecules and so on as if they were ontology. No, they're states of the field. They're symbols. They don't they're not objects. Yeah. We are looking at the ocean here. There are drops of the ocean, behavior of the ocean and it's all the ocean. Yeah.
Of course, in your theory, it helps if you can sort of have that awakening is sort of a a a um a loaded term in a sense because it's so much huge in so many different ways. But it does feel as if you are making a plea for that sort of for people to to awaken to to that deeper reality. Yeah. It it's it's realize that we are not the body and and if you as long as you believe that you are the body that there is no way that you're going beyond the limits of the body and and in fact that's that's exactly what's wrong today especially in the context of AI

On the dangers of AI

artificial intelligence you know basically being able to imitate us so well that it's difficult to tell what is artificial and what is real. Uh but the real part of us is not the body. The real part of us, the one that understands, the one that you know has free will and so on is not in the body. But is this this is really important what you're hitting here right now because I think so many people are thinking that uh Chad GPT is about to become conscious or is already conscious because they're having such wonderful personal chats and and and can really experience empathy from from the machine. It appears that he experiences empathy but yeah please Fedrico just take some time to I know it's sort of asking you what you've already explained but to those people the inventor of the first micro processor please explain why that is a fantasy because the AI is simply

Why conscious AI is a fantasy

repeating the symbolic aspects of see I have to Take a step back. Okay. So what is information for science? For science, information is simply the colloarithm of the probability that a certain symbol manifests in a series of symbols. Okay? So the more probable a symbol, the lower is the content of information of that symbol. nothing to do with meaning for us. When when I say I got information, I mean I got meaning from the symbol. So the essence of information for me is the meaning of symbols completely different than what science is talking about. So we use the term information scientifically with something that has little to do with what information is for us. Major problem here. Even worse when we call artificial intelligence we call intelligence what is not intelligence because intelligence is about the meaning of information. It's not about the symbol whether he appears or not or how probable it is to appear or not. You see, we have a major problem here and and and this lends itself to be abused by the powers to be and to you know, you know, basically to control human beings, control society. That's not good. So, a computer is not conscious. A conscious experience is private. The program and the data of a computer is not private. can be copied as many times as you want.
Already you see the difference between what I'm saying as a theory of consciousness and what science is saying. And you know that you can copy programs of computers and data of computers. So also what I feel is much less much more than what I can say about what I feel in in a computer. That's it. All that the computer says is all there is. There is nothing more in the because there is no experience in the computer. Again big difference between our consciousness the sense the you know our meaning the meaning the meaning of love. I mean you cannot even tell to the person that you love because you know that there is more where there is that love than love is a depth that goes beyond what you can say but you know there is something to find out. So that love also has the power to make you want to find now what it means you know to explore it to go beyond. Yeah. You see that computers don't have that computers they are algorithmic machines. So they if if you give them a question from that series of words they find in their world of symbols the next symbols that has the highest probability to follow the symbol that you already given. That's it. There is no meaning. It's just a it's just a a a simple computation. A computation is has nothing to do with meaning. We are the one that give the meaning to the output of a computation.
Even in a computer when we do a simulation and we see a a picture in in in the display is the display having an experience of what it shows you. No. You are the one having an experience of what the display shows to you. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And you said in our previous conversation that AI is not the beginning of a new era, but it marks the

AI is not the beginning of a new era, but it marks the beginning of one

end of one. I hope so. Yeah, I hope so. I hope that the AI ends the era of of scientism. It shows that we are more than machines. Yeah. By exactly the reasoning that I just went through and and more. So, so you know, so AI is just showing us a a how to say a fake a fake copy of what we are. And so once you realize that that you're more than that, then this spell is broken. But you get to realize it within yourself. Not not because I tell you you know you everyone every one of us has to find out who he is by an experience of who he is not by reading a book and repeating what that's that's what a that's what AI does. Yeah. Yeah. They repeat what we told them. They recombine what we told them and they give another combination of what we already told them. That's not that's not understanding. That's recombining re, you know, changing these the chairs in the room, you know, but we put the chairs, we put the room, we put the table. Yeah. And AI simply rearranges it. And what's your biggest fear now? Because developments are going so fast

Federico’s hopes and fears

now in this space. [snorts] Are you sort of are you hopeful? I mean, you just said what your hope is, but are you hopeful? It can be very useful. But my fear is that it will the the smart smart people will become smarter and the not so smart people will become dumber just like the rich gets richer and the poor get poorer because the smart people will use AI with you know with with understanding. They can ask different questions, understand more, get in get new inputs out of which they will put their own creativity into it. Yeah, the not so smart people will be happy with what the AI tells them and so they don't use their critical sense and uh you know next time they will not even come up with you know with the right question. Yeah, that's that's that's not good. That's not good. What what what in your opinion I is happiness? What is what is it to be

What is happiness?

energetically alive as you are? I mean what's that what's that spark? Well, you see when you when you find out something new you you get it. You have an intuition or even more important and you understanding when you have been struggling to understand and you finally get it. There is a burst of happiness energy. Ah got it. Yeah, I got it. Right? I mean where does it come from? It comes from your from your deepest part because is is that's what we are here for. We are here to know each other. So if I know myself or I know another like myself and if any new knowledge is a creation it wasn't there before. You see a free will decision is a creation. It's not something that can be predicted. There is no algorithm. So we live in the creative space and it is in space. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In consciousness space. But it is in the the the the information space us interacting in the physical space that somehow consciousness get enriched. It can can learn and then has these but it learns also it also learns in when there is no body you know. So so in fact it might learn much more without a body. But here is here spec expressly to understand certain aspects of self. Yeah. As we were talking earlier the sati you know we are we are the we ego and body are servant of who we are really which is the sati to understand what we're here to to find out. Yeah.
And so once we find out something our who we are is really happy. Yeah. So there's really stuff to be mind like like truly precious knowledge to be gained here and and that can only be gained in here in space time sitting here and that's what si is here for in us intuition for example many intuitive inputs that we get they come from the si from from who we are that simply you know gives an idea that come appears to come out of nowhere right where is it coming from it comes from the vaster self or or some other guides or some other entity in this deeper reality where we exist.

How to discern when we take spiritual experiences more seriously

As your theory, your way of thinking is so permissive to let's just say woo ideas. Anyone who has had channelings with extraterrestrial intelligences, you name it, entities and can can it's permissive to all of that, right? Yeah. Exactly. But how do we still discern? So is that sort of that scientific mindset? say we we we move towards a science where we sort of are much more open to all of this. How to discern still? How to to know? Well, we we discern with our consciousness. You know, consciousness then becomes it, you know, the real tool to find out who we are. Right now, we we we think that it is reasoning is the you know, is the real tool or experiments in space and time. Certainly those are good tools but not enough especially if you want to explore things that can only be explored with consciousness. You know other realities for example beyond space and time but as far as physics is concerned you know scientism is concerned there is no other reality that what is space and time right. Yeah but but we know that it cannot be that way because you cannot explain all kinds of other stuff otherwise. Exactly. you know, people that go out of body and meet other entities that are not in this space and time. They are, you know, the the space and time that they that they experience is completely different than this space and time.
Many of the many of the people they go out of body they also they can also experience this space and time and actually this reality they can report what they see like like we would report but then they can go beyond that how where is that coming from and it's also this that certainly cannot be explored with an instrument right what what kind of instrument do you you know the body the instrument which is the you know the astral body of the uh you know the person that goes out of body it goes through the windows without crashing the window it goes through the wall so you know it cannot be this physical body and yet it is a body that has senses and that understands what's going on how does that coming from how can you study that certainly now with a you know the h the the hydron collider and you are a smart smart guy Federico I mean and you're an entrep entrepreneur and working on this series, you must have sort of like hinges if if startups of ways to sort of build build sort of companies around this whole idea of startup new research. Um perhaps you're working on stuff you cannot share with us but can you just give us a tip of the iceberg on how how you are working you are sort of practically working with this now? Oh yeah, I mean you know clearly there is still some more theoretical work to do and there will be for forever really. Yeah, of course.
You have to connect on in all kinds of ways. Then there is the the my my attention is moving more toward the the uh falsifying this theory or the competing theories by experiments and then also bringing into the world ways in which people can actually experience helping people experience their own unity with one because once you have that experience you cannot go back. You cannot go back because you know that that experience is real and you know so you you may you know you may refuse it for a while but then you know you know so you are working on ways to contribute to more people realizing who they truly are correct doing how are you doing that well you know that's one one thing at a time Jack I get you I get you I won't prompt you further but I and I had to ask after my awakening experience. Uh it was

The help Federico sought after his own transformative experience

clear that I that was just a a taste of something that I didn't even understand how it could be possible. So I had to find out. So it wasn't like a oh now I know everything. In fact, no, now I know that I know something that I didn't know before, but is so much more powerful than anything that I had learned before that I must go deeper and find out. So, I started looking for help, people that knew more than I and so on. I found a therapist, for example, that would, you know, give me some some hints about, you know, transpersonal therapy. Obviously, you know, I didn't go to a psychiatrist to get a pill, right? To to but but basically, you know, started that way. So, little by little, you find your way because once you decide that you're going to find out, the world will present you the next step to do. Once you want, the world will respond. In fact, the world responded to my asking. I want to know why I'm not happy. And that's a problem of consciousness. So I want to know what consciousness is. And so I got the experience that open you know a little bit you then close then you're on your own again. Beautiful. Beautiful. It reminds me of Al Ellen Watts saying

The hide and seek of the universe

that that hide and seek aspect, right? You're finding and then closing off again because it also wants you to continue. It wants to Yeah. Which is beautiful. Yeah. And it's also an adventure. You have to love it. I mean it's not like now what am I going to do you know you know fear right no no way no it's actually in fact is is the first step of you know just almost like you a door opens and there is a new world that you didn't even know existed before so man I mean what a bounty yeah thank you uh Federico [snorts] we we we talked about a lot and um I one of the comments uh to the previous video was uh um this is the most important video of my life. Awesome people saying that about a conversation we had and uh though I only got 20% of it but but but I really hope this conversation has given people the next 20%. Maybe maybe we should do three more. we I'd be in for it but once in a while to check in with you but to give you sort of the final uh just uh space to share if there's anything left you would like to share with our audience please do so well one will never stop knowing itself right it will be because the more you know the more there is to know because the more connections since it since we're not made of separable parts The more you know then the the new knowing has to be connect with everything else that you know and and that's all new.
So you can imagine if one is like that you know that's for us too right. So there is ever more to know, ever more to enjoy. But most important is to work together. Because the moment that we understand that we are part of one, competition is out. Cooperation is in. For me to know myself, I need to know you like myself. And for you to know yourself, you need to know me like yourself and everybody else. So you you can see how this com there is a complete change in the attitude that we have toward life. The attitude of scientists to our life is the survival of the fittest. What is that about cooper is that cooperation that actually sanctifies competition. It gives a a reason why we have to compete. Yeah. and and I give you a reason why you know to cooperate and that changes from this way to that way. Yeah. Beautiful. And I you embody it. I I felt it again today. I felt in our previous conver conversation. Thank you so much. Thank you. And um it's a it's a pleasure always. I really enjoyed it. Fedrico to you watching this.
Um I think it's it's it's a great time to be alive not only for the developments and theories like Federico's but also the fact that that on our uh channel you can find a lot of videos that go deeper in this and also YouTube is just an amazing space right we discuss sort of how can people give hands to this in your day and age it would be like finding the right people in the community now you can just go online watch videos also in all sorts of way to just experience this we as a sensia try to be the hub where you can sort of come back with those experiences. We're not about that direct experiences very often, but we are about hardcore science and to make sense of it and to be rigorous about that and uh you are part of that journey. Thank you so much. Thank you. Okay. It's a pleasure.